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Post by younglulnerd on Jun 9, 2011 15:12:27 GMT
Why some trains were preserved unreferbed, ie. D78, A, C etc. Are any of them preserved???
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 17:08:19 GMT
If they preserve an A stock I can't really see them returning it to un-refurbed condition, it would cost alot and it would mean that most of the train wouldn't actually be an original running old A stock, unless they have old A stock interiors lying around somewhere. It's probably a better idea to just clean one up and return it to 1997 condition when they had just been re-done but also save that car from the RAT that still has the old interior inside, that way you'l get an example of refurb and original unrefurb condition.
Ditto on the 67's being saved though, if the 72's really are going to be with us for another ten years, it is probably a very good idea to keep some spare or parts spare incase some of the current fleet get a bit worn and need spares or the bakerloo has a stock shortage.
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Post by 21146 on Jun 9, 2011 18:21:02 GMT
I'll say it again, LUL should consider a couple of 67 sets for back up for the Bakerloo Line. Don't forget unrefurbed A stock - hopefully.... And keep 09TS protoypes Train 1 & 2 as car body spares.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2011 21:41:57 GMT
And keep 09TS protoypes Train 1 & 2 as car body spares. Unfortunately, according to this post, the 2 prototypes have actually been scrapped...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 17:20:14 GMT
Seems privately preserving a 67 stock carriage is going to be unlikely. Even if you have space to store one, as we have. I was considering buying one to offer as a filming location. It would also have made a good centrepiece in our yard. So we recently had a serious discussion with Booths.
Although Booths are clearly very enthusiast friendly, Tfl will not permit them to sell any complete carriages. They did agree to clarify the issue with TfL on our behalf, but TfL are adamant that all rolling stock sent for scrap must be disposed of.
However they did offer to remove a cab and dispatch it to us for £3,500. However I want a complete car, so that tends to defeat the object.
We have also spoken to London Underground who have made it clear that Booths are contracted to dispose of each train. LUL will not enter into any private deals to sell redundant stock.
This does mark a change from previous decades where Cravens, 59/62 and 83 stock carriages (and occasionally complete trains) were sold privately.
Hope this info is of interest.
Dean Sullivan
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2011 18:44:28 GMT
A cab would be useful to use for a simulator?
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Post by flippyff on Jun 20, 2011 21:08:08 GMT
Seems privately preserving a 67 stock carriage is going to be unlikely. Even if you have space to store one, as we have. I was considering buying one to offer as a filming location. It would also have made a good centrepiece in our yard. So we recently had a serious discussion with Booths. Although Booths are clearly very enthusiast friendly, Tfl will not permit them to sell any complete carriages. <snip> Dean Sullivan Get Booths to remove one window and then sell the car to you...... Voila, it's no longer complete! ;-)
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Post by causton on Jun 21, 2011 19:14:53 GMT
Interesting, Dean. Perhaps you should get a clarification on what a "complete" carriage is - does removing one door (and then selling the door to you separately?) count as making the unit incomplete? What about a row of seats? Or do they have to break it up until it is almost unrecognisable to sell to you? Perhaps you should find out... I could see it being quite good in the yard!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2011 9:32:20 GMT
The offer we made was to buy one of the DM carriages from the special tour train (33/71 - as shown in your Avatar!).
At the time the train was still stored at Acton. Booths agreed to hold the train while they spoke to TfL. However after some discussion TfL declined to adjust the contract.
The suggestion was that we could speak direct to TfL/LUL to try to encourage them to vary the policy on specific terms. However this was thought to be a particularly lengthy process and would likely to have run past the point where the train would need to have been collected and disposed of. So the final comments from Booths were that the most we could buy, would be the cab. They told us that the scrappage terms were very tight which although sympathetic to our cause, would not permit them to sell large parts of any carriage. So therefore even if they removed everything below the Solebar it would still breach the Contract terms. In the latter case without wheels, transportation to South Mimms and unloading would also have been a costly problem.
As an enthusiast I would have preferred to buy the whole thing rather than just a small part. At least we could have found a use for the interior and the remainder may well of helped future generations.
Very disappointing given the circumstances.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2011 16:07:33 GMT
So the final comments from Booths were that the most we could buy, would be the cab. So, did you buy it? As someone has stated before, a cab would be quite cool and useful for building a 67TS simulator.
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Post by superteacher on Jun 23, 2011 20:00:47 GMT
I can't see why TFL have adopted this attitude. Why should it bother them whether someone buys a carriage?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 11:38:58 GMT
I can't see why TFL have adopted this attitude. Why should it bother them whether someone buys a carriage? Surely they'll get money out of it?!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 12:59:23 GMT
I agree – its especially surprising given the lengths LUL have gone to in the past to sell trains. In fact when the 62s were being withdrawn in the mid 90’s, one complete train was offered for auction. It was placed on public display at Moorgate. There were no takers and the train was scrapped. Buying a complete Four car is very ambitious and requires considerable space.
When I measured out the space needed in our yard for a 16m car, I also had to consider the manoeuvrability of the delivery lorry and the space needed to unload the carriage. My yard is pretty big, in fact we can get over 50 buses in it, but it was going to be tight to put the carriage in a place where it would be out of the way from our bus operations. So to house another three carriages – perhaps not!
Anyway I think its more the complexities of the contracts drawn up between TfL & Booths. I suppose that Booths gave Tfl an exclusive price to dismantle every redundant carriage. And on that basis TfL will ensure all carriages go to them or possibly suffer penalties for reducing that quantity. Although not mentioned by either party, but possibly there’s contaminates in the trains which could make TfL liable for future claims if not removed properly. I know the A Stocks were originally sound proofed using large qualities of Asbestos. In this case TfL are legally required to ensure it was removed before any private sales could take place. The costs of doing so, while retaining the integrity of the carriage might prove very costly.
As I said in my previous post Booths were keen to let me have a carriage, but the reduced offer of a sawn off cab does not float my boat!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 15:07:39 GMT
How much was the sawn off cab going to be?
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Jun 26, 2011 15:46:05 GMT
How much was the sawn off cab going to be? Read reply No. 34
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 17:31:03 GMT
How much was the sawn off cab going to be? Read reply No. 34 Or you could just tell him? was 3k
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2011 17:32:14 GMT
Read reply No. 34 Or you could just tell him? was 3k 3 and an 'arf actually!
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Post by causton on Jun 26, 2011 18:50:22 GMT
Hmm... how about part of an A stock? Or in a few years a C/D stock? Perhaps you could negotiate with them about the latter two unless contracts have already been put in place...
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Post by seaeagle on Jun 26, 2011 19:21:15 GMT
I know the A Stocks were originally sound proofed using large qualities of Asbestos. In this case TfL are legally required to ensure it was removed before any private sales could take place. The costs of doing so, while retaining the integrity of the carriage might prove very costly. 67 stock does have asbestos contained within, however I understand the amounts to be quite small.
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Post by miff on Sept 14, 2011 17:57:20 GMT
Went past Low Hall Pump-house today. 3016 is still partially there, half scrapped. Another 1967-stock (I think, couldn't see the number) DM has arrived in the yard, in corporate livery but a lot of graffiti on one side.
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Post by alfie on Sept 14, 2011 18:07:06 GMT
Eesh. Why is TfL so up-tight about selling a train though?
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Sept 14, 2011 18:18:04 GMT
Alfie, you ask: "Why is TfL so up-tight about selling a train though?"
Perhaps they've got it into their heads that selling a train might lead to somebody setting up a rival rail operation. Or, selling it on ebay for profit - that would never do!! Years ago, I gave up trying to figure out how the minds of Civil Servants 'work'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 18:58:25 GMT
Eesh. Why is TfL so up-tight about selling a train though? In this litigious society we've brought upon ourselves I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are worried about getting sued if the train caused injury subsequent to sale.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2011 19:38:36 GMT
Eesh. Why is TfL so up-tight about selling a train though? In this litigious society we've brought upon ourselves I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are worried about getting sued if the train caused injury subsequent to sale. You can sign that away too - just utter moronicness by TfL..
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Post by alfie on Sept 14, 2011 21:21:44 GMT
When I attempt to buy a train for 50p I will sign papers saying it's completely my fault when I get run over by a train with no power and is 50-odd years old.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 14:04:57 GMT
Went past Low Hall Pump-house today. 3016 is still partially there, half scrapped. Another 1967-stock (I think, couldn't see the number) DM has arrived in the yard, in corporate livery but a lot of graffiti on one side. My source say it 3186 that now at the Pump House.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 15:48:55 GMT
I thought the lease was up on the site?
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metman
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Post by metman on Sept 15, 2011 16:19:05 GMT
as did I.....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 20:41:12 GMT
I thought the lease was up on the site? Lease was up on the car park, they still had the grade II list building and say about 5-6m in front of it which they now got on a new long term lease (it about 25% of the old site)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 20:44:41 GMT
*sigh* they could have kept 3016 aswell and restored it properly
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